Argument Episode on Understanding Brain and Nervous System ji

[Theertha (Theertha M.D.)]

Then we entered into the very Interesting session of the discussion .

According to @Misbah and me neurons and nerve cells are the same .But @Ichha had opinion that both are different .According to @Ichha neurons are collectively called nerves .Then also @Smiti had a opinion that neurons and nerve cells are the same .
Also @Smiti tried to analysis the response of touch using hot object
.
According to @Smiti One neuron is involved in the whole process .
Like Hot object >One neuron > Spinal cord

But i think there are more neurons are there to carried out the transmission of signals.

Then @Tuba tried to explaining about the transmission of signals from one neuron to other .

In this picture we have 2 neurons ,Blue one is the pre-synaptic neuron and Red one is the post synaptic neuron .
In between there is a space called Synapse .Also in axon terminal there is a neurotransmitter which helpful for the transmission of electrical signal to chemical signal and then to electrical signal.@Tuba

Why such complication is there !?

What is the actual process there in synapse !?

According to @Ichha ⁩ there are more neurons ,So these synapse can also check if there any problems in the signal and also there by prevent the transmission .

But according to @Smiti one neuron is enough ,more neurons will cause the delay of signals.Touch response is a reflex action .So sudden response is possible only when there only one neuron that connect to spinal cord.

@KiranKalakotiR ⁩ also mentioned about the size of the neurons.

Size of the neuron is from several mm to m.

Histology, Axon

The longest neuron in the human body has a single threadlike projection (the axon), a few micrometers in diameter, that reaches from the base of the spine to the foot, a distance of up to one meter." For axon length of over a meter see Cavanagh (1984, PMID 6144984 p.1284 right column bottom paragraph:) " https://bionumbers.hms.harvard.edu/bionumber.aspx?id=104901

Also discussed about the neurotransmitter acetylcholine,According to me this is a protein but @Ichha ⁩ had a opinion that choline is something similiar to cholestrol. So that may be a lipids .

Yesterday we learned a lot from people who having different concept about neuron and its function, infront of a neuroscientist.

Questions still remaining

What is the actual process there in synapse !?

How many neurons taking part in a nervous system !?

Acetylcholine is a protein or lipid !?
@Smiti @iccha⁩ @sakshiconsultant2002 @Misbah @Arunan @KiranKalakotiR and others please add your comments

[Theertha (Theertha M.D.)]

Picture from the Text :Introduction to human physiology by Lauralee Sherwood

Now i am partially agree @Smiti @Himanshu with they are saying in hot object sensation the path is like Sensory neuron to interneuron then in to Muscle .

There are one neuron(Afferent neuron ,efferent neuron & inter neuron ) instead of many …

But this is not true always ;

The efferent pathways of the ANS consist of 2 neurons that transmit impulses from the CNS to the effector tissue.

Physiology of the Autonomic Nervous System

Examples of the types of functions controlled by the ANS are salivating, sweating, changing pupil size, managing heart rate, crying, and secreting hormones

Autonomic Nervous System (ANS) Division and Functions

@Arunan @Smiti @Himanshu @Ichha @Misbah @sakshiconsultant2002 @KiranKalakotiR comment please

[Himanshu]

Does removal of hand from the hot object involve autonomic nervous system?
The answer is no …
Then you must agree completely not partially
Isn’t it ?
@Theertha

Thanks and regards
Dr Himanshu Joshi

[Theertha (Theertha M.D.)]

Discussion was about the reflex action , summary made by @shalinisharma98

Then, we had an interesting discussion about nervous system in hydra. Thanks to @sakshiconsultant2002 for initiating this discussion of nervous system being a neuroscience student.

Does hydra possess nervous system? If yes, how simple or complex it is?

How do we understand nerve net of hydra?

Is it necessary that every organism who respond to external stimuli possess nervous system? Does Mimosa plant and paramecium possess nervous system?

To understand it some part of neurons, we took an example of reflex action. So, the moment we touch a hot pan that information from finger’s neuron (sensory) will transfer to brain which will get processed there and then, processed information will travel back to fingers via motor neuron and we will draw our fingers from that hot pan.

Question raised by @04872621705 If information is transferred to the brain through multiple synapses, processed, and then returned to the finger via multiple neurons, won’t our finger burn during this process?

*TINKE Moment:- I used to think that many neurons (approx. 1000) involved in the process of transferring the information through sensory neuron and back via motor neuron. However, @magpie ma’am given us an idea about an axon of a neuron which could be 1 meter long in some cases. Now, my understanding is that, there might be few (2 or 3) long neurons are involved in this process, that’s why it’s a rapid process.

What others think? Please give your views and understanding about this information getting transferred here.

How many neurons could be present in our hands?

How does information gets transferred from one neuron to another?

Summary of Chatshaala discussion on 8/1/2024 by @Theertha

Neurons:Gaps and Misconceptions

During yesterday’s and today’s Chatshaala, we had serious discussions about neurons, particularly focusing on the response to touch in hot objects.

Questions came in today’s Chatshaala;

1)Do plant like touch me not plant have memory ?

2. How many neurons are present from the finger tip to the spinal cord.

3. Does the brain play any role in reflex actions?

4. Where and how do peripheral and central neurons meet?

Let’s all write about the gaps and Misconceptions that we all have about neurons! @⁨Aditya Joshi⁩ @⁨Batul Ma’am⁩ @⁨~Charvi⁩ @⁨~Dhanraj⁩ @⁨Himanshu Joshi⁩ @⁨shalinisharma⁩ @⁨Kiran Ma’am ⁩ @⁨Lakshmy CUBE⁩ & others.

TINKE moments to me
Nociceptors : Another name for Specialized peripheral sensory neurons ,alert us to potentially damaging stimuli at the skin by detecting extremes in temperature and pressure and injury-related chemicals.

Sensory neurons are not limited to five ,is it!? we could think of many more .@⁨Bhagwati Mam⁩ @⁨~nidhidevdas20⁩ @⁨Aditya Joshi⁩ @⁨~Dhanraj⁩ @⁨Batul Ma’am⁩ @⁨Himanshu Joshi⁩ @⁨shalinisharma⁩ & others .

Kudos to Cubists:
Let’s discuss and write about the gaps we encountered in our Chatshaala discussions.@⁨Bhagwati Mam⁩ @⁨~nidhidevdas20⁩ @⁨Aditya Joshi⁩
How do Cubists like Arunan sir ,Sakshi ,Himanshu sir & Rahul sir become interested in Neuroscience,Was it somehow influenced by CUBE !? @⁨Sakshi⁩ @⁨Himanshu Joshi⁩ @⁨Arunan sir⁩ @⁨Rahul sir CUBE⁩

[Theertha (Theertha M.D.)]

Summary written by @shalinisharma98

Followup discussion to understand neuroscience where we had TINKE moments during these discussions of reflex action.

What will happen once we touch the hotpan?
Earlier, I used to think that brain will be involved in the process of reflex action. However, now I think brain is not involved in it while spinal cord (which is connected to brain) is the one which is doing the processing of information and sending back to finger tip via motor neuron for the withdrawal of hand.

How many neurons could be involved in this process? How do you interpret if the same information goes from finger tip via 1000 or 100 neuron to spinal cord, in which would you expect the withdrawal of hand from the hotpan at earliest and why?

@⁨Theertha⁩ @⁨Sakshi⁩ @⁨Amirtha CUBE⁩ @⁨~Dhanraj⁩ @⁨Enas CUBE⁩ @⁨CHINTAN GALA CUBE⁩ @⁨~nidhidevdas20⁩ @⁨Anisha Tandan CUBE⁩ and others

Then, we understood about anterior, posterior, dorsal and ventral portion of the brain by taking some examples of animals based on the location of head, tail, back and belly.

Then, Amritha has proposed an idea to understand reflex action where she took burning candle as a stimuli instead of hotpan.

What do you think, will be better to study reflex action, candle or hotpan and why?

Are we ruling out the factor of visualisation in the case of candle? Then, what will you expect if mistakenly you take your finger in the candle flame; will you experience reflex action? And what will happen if you intentionally take your finger to the flame of candle; do you expect reflex action in this case? Please give you views.

How many of you want coffee, if arunan sir will going to make it? But before saying “YES” think twice🧐because coffee will not come straightforward from his side while it will come with some lessons of basics; so pick it carefully.

Now, we want to understand reflex action. For that, let’s play a game with four steel cups A, B, C, and D…let’s everyone guess what could be in arunan sir’s mind while asking any cubist to pick those cups one by one from table and give them to arunan sir who is sitting on another table.

Let’s enjoyyy the process of learning.

@⁨Theertha⁩ @⁨Anisha Tandan CUBE⁩ @⁨~nidhidevdas20⁩ @⁨Thikan CUBE⁩ @⁨Aditya Joshi⁩ @⁨~Charvi⁩ @⁨Sakshi⁩ @⁨~Shraddha⁩ @⁨Susanta Tanti CUBE⁩ sir, @⁨Himanshu Joshi⁩ sir, @⁨~Dhanraj⁩ @⁨Enas CUBE⁩ and others.

Follow up CUBE WhatsApp group discussions:

@Theertha

Three neurons are responsible for the reflex arc when we touch a hot object.
Summary of my understanding:
Hot pan >hotness sensed by Nociceptors ,that is a single peripheral sensory neuron> single interneuron >signals are also send to the brain >but the response occurs within the spinal cord itself.,signal transmitted from interneuron to motor neuron > hand withdrawal
So the reflex action fully controlled by the spinal cord, brain don’t have any role init (the response occurs before the brain processes the information) @⁨Arunan sir⁩ @⁨shalinisharma⁩ @⁨Misbah Shaikh⁩ @⁨Himanshu Joshi⁩ @⁨Batul Ma’am⁩ & others.

Dr Nagarjuna :Watch this video for some introduction to various terms…

Introduction to how reflexes work - reflex arc, monosynaptic and polysynaptic reflexes

Batul ma’am:
Gaps and Misconceptions in understanding reflex action were discovered and discussed in Chatshaala by Cubists.
It is commonly believed by us that as the cell size is small there must be several neurons relaying the message of a hot pan from the finger to the spinal cord and back again from the spinal cord thousands of motor neurons carrying the decision to withdraw the hand.
Would it not take a very long time if messages had to jump across the gap between these thousands of neurons at synapses?
Can a neuron be a metre long to reach from finger to the spinal cord.
Most of us also think the brain as controlling all our decision making so disagree with the fact that the hand was withdrawn without sending a message to the brain first.Is not the spinal cord extending from the brain?Does it not have ganglia where decision can be made?What is the brain made of?
What are messages if simply movement of ions or neurotransmitters across membranes?
In CUBE we study model systems like snail for example where touching the tentacle makes the snail withdraw it at first but after repeated harmless touches it does not do it.What is learning?
Why does the snail avoid its favourite food if it is laced with a bitter substance like quinine.
A lot of questions on Neurobiology from a simple conversation on taking our hand away instantly from a hot pan!!!

@⁨~Dhanraj⁩ @⁨Theertha⁩ @⁨shalinisharma⁩ @⁨Aditya Joshi⁩ and others.

[09/01, 6:39 pm] Batul Ma’am: A variety of reflex movements have been reported in patients with brain death, such as plantar responses, muscle stretch reflexes, abdominal reflexes, and finger jerks (2). Because the aforementioned reflexes are spinal reflexes, the existence of such reflex movements does not preclude the diagnosis of brain death.

[09/01, 6:39 pm] Batul Ma’am: Reflex Movements in Patients with Brain Death: A Prospective Study in A Tertiary Medical Center - PMC.