[15/04, 1:32 pm] Abhijeet Singh: I asked my mother about how she makes the sprouts so she said
“for 6-8 hrs keep in water then keep them moist inside a wet cloth for 1 day you will start getting sprouts”
So today by 9pm ( after 8 hrs) I will keep them in moist tissue paper.
My mother’s prediction is that if I am keeping them in moist conditions tonight at 9pm so by morning 9am we might observe germination.
[15/04, 1:33 pm] Abhijeet Singh: What’s your opinion @Arunan Sir @Theertha CUBE @Smiti @shalinisharma CUBE @Himanshu CUBE @Chitralekha Ma’am Cube and other…
[15/04, 1:39 pm] Himanshu CUBE: Will you start this experiment with or without soaking them in water first?
Please describe what you mean by moist conditions?
How many layers of moist tissue paper you would be using?
[15/04, 1:48 pm] Abhijeet Singh: I have started with soaking them in water first
So for moist conditions my mother mostly takes the soaked seed and keeps them in a sieve and covers them with a cloth which is wet and totally covers the seed from above with the wet cloth.
This is the same as keeping seeds in a moist tissue paper so as to provide water as well as humidity So I will be keeping the seeds in a moist tissue paper.
As Suggested by theertha I will be keeping 3-4 layers so that water can be held by the paper and not immediately evaporate.
[15/04, 2:20 pm] Himanshu CUBE: What might be the role of soaking in seed germination experiments?
Yes, indeed you mother and other homemakers are following it from ages isn’t it?
Can we also look into the scientific aspects of soaking…
One suggestion
Can you try some seeds without soaking as well and report what happens …
Can you also run your setup in duplicates or triplicates?
@Abhijeet Singh
[15/04, 5:14 pm] Abhijeet Singh: I think soaking is done because when the seeds imbibe water the seeds coat softens.
This helps the germination because when seed coat is soft then the emerging radicle and Plumule can easily come out.
[15/04, 5:20 pm] Abhijeet Singh: Okay, I will put one setup without soaking.
I will put the seeds in a moist tissue paper in a bowl or something like that container.
[15/04, 6:07 pm] Chitralekha Ma’am Cube: Does this mean that seed without seed coat will germinate with being soaked in water?
[15/04, 6:35 pm] Abhijeet Singh: But all seeds have a seed coat right?
[15/04, 6:38 pm] Abhijeet Singh: My understanding is that
Seeds which are big and which have a harder seed coat will require a few hours of soaking.
For example cardamine seeds as these are small and even if we put them in moist tissue paper their entire surface will come in contact with water equally.
This won’t be the case with bigger seeds.
What do you think? @Theertha CUBE @Smiti
[15/04, 6:40 pm] Abhijeet Singh: Germination will get triggered anyways which the seeds imbibe water.
Soaking doesn’t have a special trigger on germination I guess.
Soaking is just required for bigger and seeds with a harder seed coat.
This is my understanding.
[15/04, 6:45 pm] Abhijeet Singh: we investigated the effects of soaking and high temperature on seed germination, as well as the influence of seed placement (orientation and burial depth) on seedling emergence. Seeds of most tested litchi cultivars soaked in water had a better germination performance than seeds without soaking. More than 90% germination of tested litchi seeds was obtained when the soaking times were 26–54 hours. During presprouting, short-term high temperatures (37–44 °C) exerted a negative effect on seed germination rate, but did not influence the germination percentage. In addition, high temperatures (>42 °C) compromised the further growth of sprouted litchi seeds.
[15/04, 6:38 pm] Abhijeet Singh: My understanding is that
Seeds which are big and which have a harder seed coat will require a few hours of soaking.
For example cardamine seeds as these are small and even if we put them in moist tissue paper their entire surface will come in contact with water equally.
This won’t be the case with bigger seeds.
What do you think? @Theertha CUBE @Smiti
[15/04, 8:24 pm] Chitralekha Ma’am Cube: No role for capillary action?
[15/04, 8:31 pm] Chitralekha Ma’am Cube: Soaking doesn’t have a special trigger on germination I guess.
What is your understanding of soaking?
[15/04, 8:39 pm] Abhijeet Singh: Soaking here we are referring to as completely submerging seeds in water.
Even keeping in most conditions is similar to soaking.
Submerging for a few hours in water could be for the seeds which are bigger and with a harder seed coat as i mentioned above. This will give a higher germination percentage.
To verify we can even keep a few cardamine seeds soaked in water for 6-8hrs and then keep in moist tissue paper and see if soaking in water giver higher germination.
[15/04, 8:40 pm] Abhijeet Singh: Yes so I think exactly to verify that @Himanshu CUBE has asked to keep the seeds in moist tissue paper as well.
We can take observations and then stay with confidence
No germination observed at 9am today in bengal gram as well as butterfly pea plant seeds which were soaked in water for 8 hours and then transferred to moist tissue paper setup.
My expectation was that on the 4th day I will get maximum germination.
Interpretation so far: the seeds have become swollen that means they have absorbed water and not anytime today I expect germination to begin.
2nd day Update on setup 2 of seed germination setup
These bengal gram seeds were directly kept in Moist tissue paper without soaking in water.
1 out of 10 seeds has germinated when i observed at 9am today.
Expectation: I expected 10-20% germination by the 4th day.
Interpretation so far: I had thought that the seeds won’t be able to absorb water properly when they are not soaked in water. But the seeds are swollen and 1 seed germinated which seems to falsify my expectations
[16/04, 11:07 am] Arunan Sir: Please give your expectation of percentage of Seeds Germination and the time when you expect the first batch of seed germination, in these experimental conditions.
What makes you expect maximum germination on 4th day?
Don’t Bengal gram seeds show germination from 2nd day onwards, if not earlier, as School Cubists of CUBE Sapekhati had shown us? @Abhijeet Singh
[16/04, 11:40 am] Abhijeet Singh: Yes from 2nd day onwards the seeds germination starts .
Today is the 2nd day and by the end of today I’m expecting 20-30% germination.
Ofcourse from the 2nd day onwards bengal gram seeds start to germinate but my hypothesis says that its peak will be on the 4th day i.e. I’m expecting 100 % germination on the 4th day.
[16/04, 11:58 am] Arunan Sir: In what ground we predict 100 % germination of randomly selected seeds, like your Bengal Gram Seeds? @Abhijeet Singh
What is your Long Term Research Question, in this latest study? @Abhijeet Singh
[16/04, 12:52 pm] Abhijeet Singh: Yes like i think i shouldn’t say 100%
because there could be a possibility of 1 or 2 seeds not germinating because of independent variability
(implies that certain seeds may be non-viable, inferior in quality, or simply not capable of germinating due to inherent biological factors. In essence, it acknowledges the natural variability in seed quality and the reality that achieving a 100% germination rate is not always possible)
So I should say maximum germination by the 4th day.
[16/04, 12:56 pm] Abhijeet Singh: Long term research question is that
There is Discussion of dormancy I’m Older vs fresh seeds. That means older seeds have surpassed their dormancy phase so they shall germinate quickly when optimum conditions are provided.
So Bengal gram seeds reach us after a long period of storage. And this butterfly pea plant seeds I have collected on 7th April.
So i started this setup to find the difference.
[16/04, 12:57 pm] Abhijeet Singh: If I had fresh Bengal Gram seeds then the study would have been much more conclusive but i started with whatever I had.
[16/04, 11:30 am] Arunan Sir: What is Butterfly Pea Plant?
Please post clear picture of the plant do that we all can identify the Butterfly Pea Plant. @Abhijeet Singh
[16/04, 11:41 am] Abhijeet Singh: Clitoria ternatea, commonly known as Asian pigeonwings,[1] bluebellvine, blue pea, butterfly pea, cordofan pea or Darwin pea,[2] is a plant species belonging to the family Fabaceae, endemic and native to the Indonesian island of Ternate.[3]: 215
No Germination observed in Butterfly Pea plant seeds. After 24 hrs. These weren’t soaked in water before keeping in moist tissue paper. 16th April 2024, CUBE Homelab Ulwe Navi Mumbai Maharashtra. Photo: Abhijeet Singh.
[10:34 am, 18/4/2024] Arunan Sir: What is the reasoning behind your hypothesis on Bengal Gram Seed germination? @Abhijeet Singh
What is your interpretation after getting the results? @Abhijeet Singh
[10:37 am, 18/4/2024] Arunan Sir: Is there any reference to prove that Fresh Bengal Gram seeds do not germinate, unlike Old Bengal Gram Seeds?
Let’s get some reference link, to move forward in our study. @Abhijeet Singh
[10:39 am, 18/4/2024] Arunan Sir: How are you sure that Fresh Bengal Gram seeds show Dormancy in Seed Germination? @Abhijeet Singh
[10:42 am, 18/4/2024] Abhijeet Singh: My reasoning behind bengal gram seeds germination is the study Conducted by CUBE Sapekhati group.
In chatshaala we were discussing their study so I think as far as i remember in bengal gram they were getting Maximum germination in 3rd or 4th day.
So i thought of taking 4 day for the peak in no. of. Seeds Germinated.
[10:47 am, 18/4/2024] Abhijeet Singh: So the expectation Bengal gram seeds which were soaked for 8 hours and then transferred to Moist tissue paper was that I will get maximum germination by the 4th day.
But i got 90% Germination in 44 hours. That is close to 2 days.
This indicates the seeds high viability and rapid response to the conditions provided for Germination process.
[10:49 am, 18/4/2024] Abhijeet Singh: On the other hand
The seeds which were not soaked in water and directly placed on moist tissue paper gave 100% Germination in 28 hrs
[10:50 am, 18/4/2024] Abhijeet Singh: No I’m not saying fresh Bengal gram seeds will show dormancy.
In fact I’m saying that we don’t know if it will show dormancy.
So to compare or to find out if at all there is dormancy in fresh vs old Bengal Gram seeds.
[11:00 am, 18/4/2024] Abhijeet Singh: Legume seed dormancy has been altered during the domestication process, resulting in
non-dormant seeds with a testa that is readily permeable for water. Ultimately, this provides fast and
uniform germination, in contrast to dormant seeds of the wild progenitor. To date, germination and
seed dormancy were studied mostly in relation to two types of cultivated chickpea: kabuli and desi.
Cultivated chickpea seeds imbibed readily within 24 h,
while the germination percentage of wild chickpea at various times was 36% (24 h), 46% (48 h), 60%
(72 h) and reached 100% only after 20 day.
[11:03 am, 18/4/2024] Abhijeet Singh: What is your comments on this @Theertha CUBE @Lakshmy Cube @Chitralekha Ma’am Cube.
The ones we have at our homes are domesticated varieties?
Theertha: Abhijeet I think the green gram ,Bengal gram & other ( pulses and cereals)that is there in the kitchen we can’t called as seeds these are Grains.
[12:15 pm, 18/4/2024] Arunan Sir: This is wonderful,a clear TINKE moment for me.
Thanks @Theertha CUBE
Let’s learn like this stepwise.
What do you say? @Abhijeet Singh @Lakshmy Cube
[12:17 pm, 18/4/2024] Abhijeet Singh: So how do we categorise these items into Grains, Cereals, Pulses and seeds?
[12:21 pm, 18/4/2024] Abhijeet Singh: The word grain is usually used for the edible seeds of a cereal grass, such as rice, barley, or corn (maize). A cereal grass’s fruits—the fleshy or dry ripened ovaries of a flowering plant that contain seeds—are also often referred to as grains.
Technically, most grains are actually a type of fruit with a seed that is difficult to separate without milling. The scientific name for this type of fruit is caryopsis.
So, depending on how the word is used, grain can mean just the seed or the seed with the fruit attached to it. (It doesn’t help that grain is also used as the name of the type of plant that produces grains.) In everyday usage, though, grain and seed refer to much the same thing
[12:22 pm, 18/4/2024] Abhijeet Singh: Grains are the ones which mostly come from the grass if the poaceae family.
The reproductive part of a grass is the grain which is fruit inside which is an embryo and an endosperm and all of this is covered inside a seed husk.
[12:22 pm, 18/4/2024] Abhijeet Singh: This is what I think
[12:23 pm, 18/4/2024] Chitralekha Ma’am Cube: This is a book chapter and probably not peer reviewed. Not very correct.
Seed and grain terms are often used interchangeably. But scientifically, seed is the fertilised ovule of any seed bearing plant. Grain is a term used for cereal fruits, seed + fruit wall covered with the hard bracts/glumes.
[12:28 pm, 18/4/2024] Theertha CUBE: But these pulses and cereals we brought from market for eating purpose is not used for agriculture purpose,why ?
[12:32 pm, 18/4/2024] Chitralekha Ma’am Cube: They can be used for agricultural purposes; why not? In olden days, farmers would set aside part of the harvest for sowing in the next year, and the rest is used for consumption.
[12:33 pm, 18/4/2024] Chitralekha Ma’am Cube: I suppose even now farmers do that.
[12:38 pm, 18/4/2024] Theertha CUBE: I don’t think so.
The pulses and cereals we brought from market is not commonly used for agriculture purpose.
Farmers majorly collecting seeds from institute/industry,mainly the certified seeds.(Checked with viability,stored properly etc.)
In southern regions ,tamilnadu agriculture University, is the most common one .other than that ICAR ,krishibhavan are the major sources for seeds.
Ofcourse we need reliable references to claim this.lets search and find out.
[1:16 pm, 18/4/2024] Abhijeet Singh: How are these certifications done? Which are the parameters taken into account?,
[1:27 pm, 18/4/2024] Abhijeet Singh: What I have studied in my seed technology paper is that
There are major 3 parameters.
Physical
Genetic
Physiological condition of the seed.
Sampling is done from the seed lot and government agencies and committees carry out grading of seeds on above mentioned parameters and uniform quality seeds are packaged and sold.
And a few of them might be used by farmers for agriculture.
But I’m still not of the opinion that all farmers source seeds through this method. They can do the grading as well from the traditional techniques.
Therefore seeds can be sourced through central and state certification agencies as well as from the own lot of seeds produced.
[2:37 pm, 18/4/2024] Chitralekha Ma’am Cube: Agree. These institutes provide certified seeds of specific varieties and quality especially in cross pollinating crops but that doesn’t mean that the harvested seeds can’t be used for growing the next season crop. Also then the farmers need not to buy the seeds from the institutes. Most farmers with small cultivable land save part of their harvest so as not to spend money in buying the seeds again. I don’t see any reason why the harvested seeds/grains can’t be used for cultivation. Do they not germinate?
Arunan sir: Very interesting and almost neglected area😇
How do we explain Seeds Dormancy in this context? @Theertha CUBE @Chitralekha Ma’am Cube
How does @Abhijeet Singh find the Seed Technology paper, in this context?
What are the practical components of Seed Technology paper?
Is Testing Dormancy a topic?
What else? @Abhijeet Singh
Thanks for sharing the conversations happening elsewhere. If only these discussions happen directly on the chatShala, that is best. @Arunan@PChitralekha
Please encourage them to post, by giving them the link to your post in Whatsapp.
UPDATE: Now at 9pm i have removed them from Water. And kept in Moist tissue paper. 
@Abhijeet Singh
@Abhijeet Singh
